Curse

Wildi · Jun 28, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

petition: "make absorption runes work with assassins" anyone ? ;p

eternal pho · Jun 28, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Well heres the thing, assassins aren't really useful in pve, but actually are qite decent in pvp.

Silent Kitty · Jun 28, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildi

petition: "make absorption runes work with assassins" anyone ? ;p

No. Just make "Critical Defenses" last longer than 6 seconds.

eternal pho · Jun 28, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

Assassins do really suck, they just a mimic of the Warrior, but worse. Warriors are not really welcomed to groups, but assassins, they arent welcomed at all to groups. Assassin heal self sucks, 4 seconds you get +9 hp regen, and 67 health after it sucks, I would rather get straight to the point with +127 health. There armor sucks. They look horrible and wimpy, looks like necromancer could own em. Also there dmg sucks! 2 hands for 7 - 17 dmg? LOL. HAMMER 19 (more than assassin max dmg) - 35 (X2 than assassin max dmg). And for speed? It sucks! Warriors sword is ABOUT the same, and deals 15 - 22 dmg, which is WAY better than assassin dmg. And there shadow walks? Who would spawn in front of enemy monk, then the enemy warriors OWN YOU, before your healer can get to you in time for a heal. Assassins, really suck.4 seconds for 50% running that costs 5 mana is a joke.

Ritualist is a joke too, but not even close to assassin. They just like necromancer but worse. Spirts are like wells, and minions, except can be casted anywhere. And there attack spells are WAY worse than necromancer. They have a spirt where you can be a 55 ritualist, but nobody is going to do it because there spirts suck!

Perhaps you're not very experienced with the class? =P Btw, unless you're talking about pvp, then Ritualists and sins are very useful in pvp if you know how to use them right.

Tigers Anger · Jun 28, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Assasins are an amazing class, especially with Dual Smite. Inspired by a HoH match my friend had against Brehon and sama we tried out Assasins in Smite. My guild and I have used Asssasins extensively in Alliance and in Heroes Ascent, we win almost every battle and when we tested the build last night in Heroes Ascent we had a great run, beating numerous guilds like Ghostly Zeroes and Storm Bearers. 2 daggers - 7-17 = 14-34, not as high as hammers but good attack speed and you don't get dual strikes all the time naturally but still. What I love about them is you don't need adrenaline or anything, just run in there and use your combo and poof they're dead (provided you run a build like we do). Their job is to assasinate, they are great at doing so too, I'd run an Assasin over a thumper or warrior any day in a Smite build because with the damage boosting it makes sure that your 1 combo will kill.

You can't compare the damage the daggers provide to a sword or any other warrior weapon because Assasin combos don't need any adrenaline to use the powerful attacks and the actual dagger skills have high +xx values. Find me a skill like Unsuspecting Strike which you can run in there and just use it and they lose a heck load of health (can't compare it with Eviscerate cos you need adrenaline for that) and Twisting Fangs is an incredibly strong skill too.

Assasins have terrible self-heals yes, but they're meant to kill people with good efficiency. They're not the jack of all trades Warrior, strong armor, good self-heals, good damage, Assasins are all about doing damage and cool teleporting. They have ok evasive/defensive skills but you can't really compare them to warrior stances 1337 bonettis defense.

I can really see them becoming a popular profession in HA, good for assasinating Ghostly Hero's and monks. With just an IAS skill they pump out good damage aswell. I'm not saying we should all get rid of our Warriors and put in Assasins, but they are a good class and should not be underestimated.

Amity and Truth · Jun 28, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Assassins sure are a strong class if they're played right. But nope, no way. I won't take them into any of my teams if i'm leader unless they're guild/alliance and really ultimately have to take that certain character. Just no.
The reason is quite simply that i don't see a point in taking them into the team (and i'm normally the one to call for a mesmer). But, honestly... what can they do?

Mess up the backline?
A single good Interrupt Ranger just causes as much havoc, but is ranged and gets less hits.

Annoy the casters?
A mesmer can just do that as good as the assassin - and then some.

From my point of view, 'sins contribute nothing to a party that one of the other classes could not provide much much more efficiently. Now add into the mix that only a very good assassin can really do his job whereas even a bad mesmer can still own the casters... well just makes the decision even more easier.

As for the poor Assassin Players. I'm sorry, but i'm not some kind of welfare institution. When i was playing my mesmer back in the days, no one really cared for my class either *shrugs*. If you want to play the Underdog Classes just expect to be treated as the Underdog Class.

bobrath · Jun 28, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

I guess I see a *good* sin as one that waits until a soft target presents itself and then goes in to remove that threat completly. No disrupt or delay it - kill it. Mesmers and Rangers are the masters of disruption, but sins are far better at taking an enemy out of the game. Death is a far more effective shutdown then anything an interupting Ranger or Mesmer can do.

That being said... how many *good* assasins have you seen? The number is certainly tiny. The vast majority are in your group to suck mana off the monk and then supply a ready made corpse for the necros.

proffbeer · Jun 28, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

I'm getting realy sick of these posts, realy sick. In prophcies it was literaly months before people understood what a mesmer was for. I was one of them, so i should know. It was twice as long till necros were understood. I didn't really start seeing disrupting rangers for a good long while either. Now, however, these classes are staples of most groups, if not demended in every instance. The only reason rits are not getting the hate that assassins do is simply because "ooohhh, they can heal and attack, oohhh" Something tells me that in a few months time, most of these people screaming, "i hate sins" will probaly be eating their words. It all just the herd mentality, simply put, if something doesn't conform to peoples ideas of what something be like then its is hated. IMHO, mods should shut these threads down immeditaly. There's never anything useful in em, just bashing of a class. Mostly from people that have never even read the skills at the assassins disposal.

dargon · Jun 28, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by proffbeer

I'm getting realy sick of these posts, realy sick. In prophcies it was literaly months before people understood what a mesmer was for. I was one of them, so i should know. It was twice as long till necros were understood. I didn't really start seeing disrupting rangers for a good long while either. Now, however, these classes are staples of most groups, if not demended in every instance. The only reason rits are not getting the hate that assassins do is simply because "ooohhh, they can heal and attack, oohhh" Something tells me that in a few months time, most of these people screaming, "i hate sins" will probaly be eating their words. It all just the herd mentality, simply put, if something doesn't conform to peoples ideas of what something be like then its is hated. IMHO, mods should shut these threads down immeditaly. There's never anything useful in em, just bashing of a class. Mostly from people that have never even read the skills at the assassins disposal.

QFT because you said everything I was about to.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 28, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by proffbeer

I'm getting realy sick of these posts, realy sick. In prophcies it was literaly months before people understood what a mesmer was for. I was one of them, so i should know. It was twice as long till necros were understood. I didn't really start seeing disrupting rangers for a good long while either. Now, however, these classes are staples of most groups, if not demended in every instance. The only reason rits are not getting the hate that assassins do is simply because "ooohhh, they can heal and attack, oohhh" Something tells me that in a few months time, most of these people screaming, "i hate sins" will probaly be eating their words. It all just the herd mentality, simply put, if something doesn't conform to peoples ideas of what something be like then its is hated. IMHO, mods should shut these threads down immeditaly. There's never anything useful in em, just bashing of a class. Mostly from people that have never even read the skills at the assassins disposal.

QFT twice, I am alreasy making people eat their words, this snob monk went off and died, I didn't die the entire mission except for one time, where I solo'ed out a juggernaut then on my return trip I got caught with all of the enemies turning and spiking me, but I took out a KEY target. Also sure there are the most stupid friggin assassins out there, that I have seen that do crap damage and crap living, for a while in game I was one of the assassins that had to run in, but I targeted softies and I also had flashing blades(my best elite at the time) up at all times to cover me, I died a bit but not nearly as much as the other ones. Give the sins a friggin chance ask about the skill bar, if it sounds good let em in.

Inde · Jun 28, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Calm down everyone... otherwise the thread will be closed.

General Surena · Jun 28, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I henched most missions with my Assassin, also henched "Unwaking Waters"/"Raisu" etc., except Hatchery.

Who needs healing-breeze monks, 0-damage warriors and flare-spamming Eles? Seriously, the bad players are just everywhere. People overestimate PVE, as if it would be sooo hard and fatal in the choices you make, while it's actually not. Everyone deserves a chance.

LifeInfusion · Jun 28, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

If looks could kill... Assassins would win. Assassins have the best looking armor for both Male and Female, IMO. However, we don't play "dressup your character" we play Guild Wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I agree with you there. WAY too many people don't bring any form of teleporting and just charge in. Not only that, but the fact that energy denial severely cripples them due to their MINISCULE energy pool doesn't help either.

Assassins are like watered down warriors IMO. They have:
A. less armor
B. more energy dependence (that doesn't help since you have a small pool)
C. less protection from Spiteful Spirit, Empathy, Clumsiness, Mind Wrack, Spirit Shackles and all forms of hate because you have less time to react to skills that activate on hit
C. more dependence on enchantments (shadows refuge shattered continuously = dead assassin)
D. one mandatory skill to not die every 10 seconds: return or aura of displacement
E. more vulnerability to skill disabling because of combos
F. more newer users playing them since it is a newly released profession
G. crippled literally when crippled

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=53

In short, anything assassins can do is not the highest effectiveness and have easy counters.

Not to put down assassins, but they really do not have the highest effectiveness.

Skuld · Jun 28, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Seriously what is this going to accomplish? It's the same argument tossed around again and again and again..

Loki Seiguro · Jun 28, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

ppl say that most sin players use them as tanks so they rusgh in and get killed which makes ppl think sins are weak and it causes problems for us more experienced sin players

sph0nz · Jun 28, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I lol'ed.

The assassin's energy pool is fine. Use Shrouded armor and Zealous Daggers. (13 Critical Strikes helps too) Still having energy problems? Not my problem. You're doing it wrong.

Assassins wouldn't die in 10 seconds if they weren't in battle for so long. It doesn't take 10 seconds to pull off one combo and then get out. Unless you're fighting Mursaat and you're not infused, or if you're doing the Hell's Precicpice mission then there's no reason that you should be dying so much.

Splatter Mcnasty · Jun 28, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I've been playing Guildwars since the day Prophecies was released last year. I play guildwars because it lets me unwind after work each night. I mostly solo-farm all over the place (Factions and Prophecies), but I dont use any 55 builds. I create my characters with tanking and solo-farming in mind. "Tanking" is my play-style, but I also switch up my character builds to fill specific roles when I am in groups with other people.

I play my assassin as a tank because I choose to, not because I'm an un-educated noob. I can solo-farm many types of mobs, in many different areas.

I also perform very well in groups. Just a couple days ago I took my assassin through the Abaddons Mouth mission with a full group of people (PUG group, I didnt know anyone). During the mission, our 2 tanks both died a couple of times. I didnt die at all, and I was not an energy drain on the monks, in fact they rarely had to heal me at all. And I was playing like a tank...

This game is all about building your character and using skill combinations which enable you to meet certain objectives, objectives that you define and those that the game defines.

My assassin tank build that I use for solo-farming and group play is as follows:

Disrupting Stab (can be switched out for anything else)
Golden Phoenix Strike
Death Blossom
Golden Lotus Strike
Healing Breeze (I also use Vigorous Spirit occasionally)
Healing Hands [E]
Live Vicariously
Balthazars Spirit

Some of you may take issue with the fact that I use 2 maintained enchantments, or you may say that I have a perceived energy problem, or that I'm vulnerable to enchant stripping, or this, or that, blah blah blah...

I've heard it all many times, but I assure you, this build works for me. I dont have energy issues, I dont have healing issues, and I can tank just as well as any Warrior.

To sum up, the people who bitch about assassins are the ones who havent actually spent the time to make it work. I'm sick of the assassin-hate that the majority of players have.

sinican · Jun 28, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I played an asn through factions... IMO Assassins are way underpar... i know a lot of assassins will argue this... however there are a few reasons they are factually weaker...

i would like to point out that my asn was great fun through earlier parts of cantha but then as soon as i hit the lvl 20+ mobs it all went downhill from there...

a major reason i believe asns lack is do to the nature of their attacks what makes a player dramatically affect the outcome of his/her character is being able to use their chosen skills in strategic orders dependant upon the situations they are face... with the asn however the skills themselves have to be "chained" in preset order determined by whether they are lead/offhand/dual/etc this severely limits the entire class in general... first aspect being of corse that there is no real way an asn can counter with a skill by skill intent oh no they must go through other attacks to use the skill that will actually affect the outcome of certain battles and those skills get interupted miss and ruin the entire chain

another major flaw i see in the class is that after level 20 when the mobs keep increasing in lvl 20+ assassins much needed critical strikes that manage there small energy pool become less and less with no way to keep ciriticals at any type of stable level this include skills the specifically work off of criticals

the last part is that the assassins best defence is staying out of the fight this is completely pointless to me... you cannot do dmg unless you are in the fight and most of the assassins dmg potential is destroyed because of this warriors do more dmg meerly because they can provide continuous dmg whilst taking it an asn is able to spike some nasty dmg but again laster against lvl 20+ mobs this spike dmg isn't enough to actually Assassinate a single target before its already time to retreat from agro/dmg

this is my opinion...

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 28, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

^^ I do believe that I disagree with you in every fashion, Sins can spike whatever the heck they want, In raisu palace I was spiking tanks and rangers, all level 28, in this area if you rely on crit hits then you are umm screwed, but if you rely on secure damage+conditions than you will be fine. Alot of people think that sins only being able to take out one target for every 15-20 secs is weak when it isn't, if a sin actually takes the time to think and pick his targets than he is fine, The order of target picking should go Monk>rit>mes>necro>ele>ranger and by that time the tanks would likely have gotten rid of the tanks, also the sin is THE boss killer. On Unwaking when we got to Kuuni our team was down to about three people with just me, a tank, and a monk, and the tank kept a good DPS going while I spiked and kept kuuni conditioned (deep wound and bleed) and it got us through with masters. Sins don't deserve to be hated, and splatter, looking over your build I think that is one of the few tanking builds that I think could work if played right. Oh also a Sin is nowhere near a watered down warrior, they shouldn't even be compared, and actually, a Sin, if played right, is a tanks best friend, by taking out the one thing that can demolish the tank, the casters. ALso the sin can condition down the tanks target and make the tanks job MUCH easier. If anyone thinks that sins are weak, go to the Sin boards and look at my open invitation.

Astraea Zopyros · Jun 28, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Maybe this should be merged with the "Monk Abuse" thread, and renamed, "We hate PuGS."

Every profession has advantages and disadvantages. Currently, yes, it will be very difficult for Assassins to get a group. This is not necessarily because we hate Assassins--due to the newness of the profession, there are a lot of Assassins out there.

One is ok for a group. Two can be handled. Three? That's pushing it. As a monk, just like I'd never take a group with more than two warriors, two elementalists, two necromancers, etc., I won't take a group with more than two Assassins. Too many of one class severely hinders the group. Currently there are a ton of Assassins, so groups fill up much quicker.

Also, many players are still discovering a playstyle that works for them. Just as when I was a new monk, I really sucked at it, new Assassins really suck. Anytime you are new at a profession and without guidance, you stand a high chance of really sucking. It just happens.

Thus said, I really feel this is a PuG and general player problem, not just an Assassin, Monk, Mesmer, Warrior, Necromancer, Ranger, Elementalist, Ritualist hate problem...